Jimmy's Corner

Dear Jimmy.
I think the point that Yury Samodurov is trying to make is that we in the West wont let ourselves be intimidated by religous fanatics into accepting norms we don't belive in.

And second. The freedom of speech is defined by the law. Not by foreigners who think that they have superior moral standards and think they have the right to kill us if we don't submit to them.

If terrorist se this as an opportunity to launch a terrorist attack against us so be it. We are not responsible for their deeds.

Henrik

Dear Henrik,
If you think the rightful request for more responsiblity over using freedom of expression and more respect for religious beliefs something imposed on then you are wrong. It is an important items of the simple human rights to have your religious beliefs respected (be it Christianity, Judaism or Islam). Moreover I dont think 1/5 of the worlds population are religious fanatics. I believe there should be some more understanding between muslims and western cultures, such understanding is what your right-wing lacks as well as terrorists.

Violence is not accepted, and debate is the right answer... so lets have a dialogue away from any stimulating of situations. I still insist, as long as you keep offending Muslims, you are giving space to the extremists to incite the situation.

With respect

Dear Jimmy.
Thanks for your reply.

Quote:
"If you think the rightful request for more responsiblity over using freedom of expression and more respect for religious beliefs something imposed on then you are wrong."

Am i? I don't hear an argument. It IS imposed. There are no bans in Denmark about making satire over religious figures. There laws against racism and blasphemy and if somebody thinks that those laws have been broken they should go to the courts. Religious beliefs doesn't have more rights that any other beliefs. Al sorts of beliefs can me discussed even ridiculed. If you allow clerics to define what is acceptable to do and what is not you undermine democracy and the scientific progress. To things i consider to be most valuable. The freedom of speech is a part of the foundation of both things.

Besides christians don't recognize Muhammed as a prophet. Why should he deserve our respect?

Quote:
"It is an important items of the simple human rights to have your religious beliefs respected..."

No it is not. It is a right to be free to exercise your own religion. It is not a right to control what other people think, write or do. Besides i've been surfing the internet. A lot of blogs are posting cartoons from arab newspapers. The internetsite memritv.org has some interresting stuff as well. Some jews and christians could consider these things to be offensive. So for the respect of judaism and christianity in the muslim world. Being arab(?) i'm sure you are familiar with them. If your are not i could post some links in a reply.

Quote:
"... (be it Christianity, Judaism or Islam)."

Not Hinduism and Buddhism? Behead the idolaters. Eh? ;)

Quote:
"Moreover I dont think 1/5 of the worlds population are religious fanatics."

If 1/5 of the worlds population resorts to or justifies violence whenever their religion is ridiculled then the label "religious fanatics" would not be to strong in my opinion.

Quote:
"... so lets have a dialogue away from any stimulating of situations."

But that depends if we can agree on something. If we cannot a dialogue is meaningless. Personly i don't think that a compromise is possible. If i undestand you right you think that is wrong to ridicule Muhammed. My stand on this issue is that it is not necessarely wrong to ridicule him. There are no point of wiev between those two.

Quote:
"I still insist, as long as you keep offending Muslims, you are giving space to the extremists to incite the situation."

So let them incite the situation. It is better than caving in to them. Besides back out on this issue it would only mean that they would raise the bar. What's next? A ban of beer and bacon? A ban on constrution new churches? Censorship in films and the media to protect the sensitive muslims? We in the West have values too you know?

P.S. Good luck in the finals.

Hello Henrik, thanks for replying back...

Your quote: "There laws against racism and blasphemy and if somebody thinks that those laws have been broken they should go to the courts. Religious beliefs doesn't have more rights that any other beliefs."

Answer: I said more responsibility over freedom of expression should be imposed, and I believe freedom of expression is a responsibility more than a right. It was truly irresponsible and stupid to publish these cartoons.
Now back your comment, I do believe these cartoons incite racism and hatred, you know why? When they give a very false negative stereotypical idea to their readers who most of them know nothing about Islam, the reader automatically will have an opposing standpoint to this religion and its followers. Which leads to racism and hatred.

Your quote: "Besides christians don't recognize Muhammed as a prophet. Why should he deserve our respect?"

Answer: Christians do recognize Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)as a prophet and I know chrsitians even in Denmark and they do, if you do not then it is your problem but dont generalize things.

As for why to respect Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), simply because he is a symbol of a religion that over 1 billion people believe. Moreover, it is the essence of tolerance and civilized attitude to respect whatever the others religiously believe because religion is something so private and sacred, thus offending religions means offending the privacy of its followers and inciting racisim. Something unacceptable, only the nazis do. Meanwhile, if we apply your logic on the current situation, we people there are offending because people here burnt the Danish flag... it is not theirs to respect... you see where your logic is taking us now?

Your quote: "No it is not. It is a right to be free to exercise your own religion. It is not a right to control what other people think, write or do."

Answer: To have your religious belief respected is essential human right. Muslims are not controling what the others' think, but rather asking for responsibility over the use of this freedom. Get real, there is no absolute freedom on Earth, and only responsibility and rationality hold freedom from turining into animal mess. So all they need is a stress on the responsibility over freedom of expression by not offending religions which are sacred and constitute a human being's privacy. If you offend religions, you offend their followers, you interfer with their privacy, you cause racism and hatred as consquences. Got the point?

Your comment: "Not Hinduism and Buddhism? Behead the idolaters. Eh? ;)"

Answer: I dont think I need to list all names world of religions down ;). Moreover, don't just re-voice the words of extremists here. Those who call for the beheading of anyone are criminals and I say the British police should have arrested them all during the demonstration.

Your quote: "1/5 of the worlds population resorts to or justifies violence whenever their religion is ridiculled then the label "religious fanatics" would not be to strong in my opinion"

Answer: It is a small number of people who resort to violence if u compare them to the number of those who just protest peacefully and condemn terrorism. Terrorism is not accepted by any means and it is never justified.

Your quote: "But that depends if we can agree on something"

My answer: A dialogue helps the understanding among people. It helps me know who you are and you know who I am. It is not a game to win or lose. When dialogue starts, understanding is possible, compromise will be reached because it is not a win-or-lose game. Then more respect will become the essence of more responsibility over freedom of speech.

If you think the dialogue is useless then why calls to end boycott? The same way you believe u cant accept what the other wants, the other cant accept what you want. So it is just understanding and compromise that is the right way to go.

Your stereotypical quote: "So let them incite the situation. It is better than caving in to them. Besides back out on this issue it would only mean that they would raise the bar. What's next? A ban of beer and bacon? A ban on constrution new churches? Censorship in films and the media to protect the sensitive muslims? We in the West have values too you know?"

My answer: We are not calling you to do anything but have more respect to ALL RELIGIONS and responsibility over freedom of expression to not offend people and cause more global crisis based on cultural disagreements.

I recommend you read my articles:
http://jimmys-corner.blogspot.com/2006/02/review-on-cartoons-redirecting-power.html
and:
http://jimmys-corner.blogspot.com/2006/02/i-have-to-break-silence.html

Thanks for your wishes :), Henrik!

Hi Jimmy.

Quote:"... I do believe these cartoons incite racism and hatred, you know why? When they give a very false negative stereotypical idea to their readers who most of them know nothing about Islam, the reader automatically will have an opposing standpoint to this religion and its followers. Which leads to racism and hatred."

No it will not. First of all we danes are getting to know if not Islam then muslim values by the 200.000 who have emigrated from the ME to Denmark. Second you didn't comment the fact that anti-judaism and anti-christian speech and writing are wide spread in ME-media. I assume you agree on that. How about cleaning up in your own nest before you critisize other? You are the one with the oh-so-high-moralstandards when it comes to protecting peoples religious feelings but fail to do so yourself. Third people CAN distinguish between reality and some satirical cartoons. Satirical cartoons are supposed to edgy and stereotypical and people know that. Fourht the 3-4 of the 12(not 15) cartoons that were puplished in Jyllands-Posten are exceptions to the rule. Target number 1 of the danish newspapercartoonist are the politicians. The government as well as the opposition.

If people begin to hate islam it is more likely the result of muslims flying airplanes into builings. The result of the celebrating of that event. There were palestinian flags in the streets of the third lagest city in Denmark the 11. of september 2001. Bombings in major european cities. Done by muslims who was brougt up here in the west and yet they still hate it. The murder of Theo Van Gogh. It wasn't condemned by a single muslim in the danish media but it was justified by several. Deaththreats to islamcritical writers, and cartoonist i might ad. The overrepresentation of muslims emmigrants in the danish crimestatistics(violence and gangrapes appear to be muslim specialities).The imam living in Denmark that said in a fridaysermon that unveiled women(danish women) were to blame if they were beeing raped. A suitable justification. The chairman of the Hizb Ut-Tahir that distributed leaflets inciting to kill danish jews using a Quran-quote(By recollection:"Kill them wherever you find them and expell them from where they expelled you"). He got a short prisonsentence for that by the way.
Don't get me wrong Jimmy. I'm not holding you responsible for all of this. And i'm not asking you to comment on it either. All i'm saying that muslim should stop playing the wictim. To use the words of your fellow blogger Big Pharaoh, it is your actions that defines you, not what you say. The islamic world lack the ability to critisize it self. There are some rotten apples in your basket you know?

Quote:"Christians do recognize Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)as a prophet and I know chrsitians even in Denmark and they do, if you do not then it is your problem but dont generalize things."

I'm from Denmark and i'm a christian. I don't know a single person who recognizes Muhammed as a prophet. I think i can generalize on this subject.

Quote:"...thus offending religions means offending the privacy of its followers and inciting racisim. Something unacceptable, only the nazis do."

Guilt by association. Thats a cheap shot Jimmy. I'm not going to comment on that.

Quote:"Meanwhile, if we apply your logic on the current situation, we people there are offending because people here burnt the Danish flag... it is not theirs to respect... you see where your logic is taking us now?"

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Could you pin it out a bit?

Quote:"Those who call for the beheading of anyone are criminals and I say the British police should have arrested them all during the demonstration."

I agree.

Quote:"...but rather asking for responsibility over the use of this freedom. Get real, there is no absolute freedom on Earth.."

I never said that there were absolute freedom on this earth. What i'm saying is that it should be the up to the polticians to define what is legal to say and what is not. Not the clerics. The freedom of expression is not sacred. It is a value that among many other things has contributed to making the west prosberous.

Quote"A dialogue helps the understanding among people. It helps me know who you are and you know who I am."

Good point.

Quote:"When dialogue starts, understanding is possible, compromise will be reached because it is not a win-or-lose game."

Not necessarilly. Just because we undestand each other point wievs doesn't mean that we can agree on a certain issue.

Quote:"Then more respect will become the essence of more responsibility over freedom of speech."

Responsibility if not to the law then to whom?

Quote:"If you think the dialogue is useless then why calls to end boycott?"

Good point. I haven't called to end the boycott. If muslims don't want to eat danish cheese for the next 100 years that would be their call. The boycott is not the issue here. Not in my opinion.

Quote:"Your stereotypical quote"

It is not so stereotypical i'm afraid. As i see it there is a clear ambition in the islamic diaspora to impose islamic norms into our society. To make us danes into trembleling dhimmis. The cartoon crisis is a step in that effort.

You codemn terrorism. Fair enough. But in post after post your critizesing JP not those bastards who are setting embassies ablaze. It is a bit difficult for me to distinguish between your agenda and theirs.

Best regards.

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